No sense of humour…DM vs Internet

edit: Chuck Norris hat den Song jetzt leider gelöscht. Und den Account.

Zweimal.

Das ist schon krass. Habe das jetzt nur über Händyspeaker gehört, keine Ahnung wie“gut“ das klingt. Ich habe aber schon schlechteres von der Band selber gehört.

 

[ganje]

Aber nur für die, die zum einen gut Englisch können und zum anderen auch tatsächlich verstehen, was da gesungen wird, zumal Dave Gahan auch nicht immer klar verständlich singt, da gibt es schon ab und zu "Misheard Lyrics".

Es ist dennoch das Gesamtpaket, was DM und viele andere Musiker ausmacht und da gehören Lyrics nun mal dazu. Man kann natürlich auch ein Fan von etwas sein, was man nicht versteht, aber meine Meinung dazu, schreibe ich mal lieber nicht.

Geldscheine darf man auch nicht fälschen, egal zu welchem Zweck.

Du kannst dir aber Falschgeld kaufen, was der generierten Musik ziemlich nahe kommt.

Mein Euro – Spiel- und Rechengeld

„Mein Euro – Spiel- und Rechengeld“ für die Primarstufe bietet eine große Anzahl an ausstanzbaren Münzen und Banknoten zum Spielen und Rechnen. Das beiliegende Poster zeigt kindgerecht die Münzmotive aller Euro-Länder, die Euro-Banknoten sowie eine Karte mit den Euro-Ländern.

www.bundesbank.de

 

[Scenturio]

Es wurde hier versucht Depeche Mode nachzuahmen

leider wird es für KI nicht so einfach sein, zu erkennen, ob jemand mit seinen Prompts versucht, irgend etwas existierendes nachzuahmen.
Oder anders: letztendlich ahmen die Modelle ja immer den Input des Trainingsmaterials nach - bzw. verwursten viele Quellen zu etwas anscheinend eigenem.

Dem wird man nur begegnen können, indem man die Verwendung geschützten Materials als Trainingsdaten unterbindet, und damit hätte man die aktuellen Konzepte der KI-Tools mehr oder weniger komplett lahm gelegt.

 

[verstaerker]

Du kannst dir aber Falschgeld kaufen, was der generierten Musik ziemlich nahe kommt.

Mein Euro – Spiel- und Rechengeld

„Mein Euro – Spiel- und Rechengeld“ für die Primarstufe bietet eine große Anzahl an ausstanzbaren Münzen und Banknoten zum Spielen und Rechnen. Das beiliegende Poster zeigt kindgerecht die Münzmotive aller Euro-Länder, die Euro-Banknoten sowie eine Karte mit den Euro-Ländern.

www.bundesbank.de

schau mal wer das "Falschgeld" herausgegeben hat

 

[goorooj]

letztes Jahr hatten wir z.B. in den USA einen Streik von Schauspielern wegen der Verwendung von KI in Filmen. Oder aus dem Autorengeschäft: Schriftsteller klagen wegen Urheberrechtsverletzung gegen OpenAI .

I might throw in here that the british musicians union in 1982 actually passed a ban on using synthesizers and drum machines, because it endangered real musicians jobs.
They did not really have any means to enforce it, but it shows perfectly how organisations react to a changing of the status quo.

“The union passed a motion to ban the use of synths, drum machines and any electronic devices”: the day the 'Loony' Musician's Union tried to kill the synthesizer (which also happened to be Bob Moog’s birthday)

Best of 2023: And it wasn't the first time the UK union had it in for technology

www.musicradar.com

Now, for the censoring of the AI....
With AI pictures, if you use online portals there is censoring in place what can be drawn and what not, but as soon as you have stable diffusion on your own machine you can do with it what you want, because it is open source.
Meta ( Facebook ) actually has an open source audio AI they are developing ( AudioCraft ), i dont see why it eventually should not yield the same high quality results at some point in the future as suno/Udio now.

Introducing AudioCraft: A Generative AI Tool For Audio and Music | Meta

AudioCraft lets you easily generate high-quality audio and music from text.

about.fb.com

And with Open Source Code in the open, usable for everybody, i dont see any possibilities for censorship... and then, how should an artist prove that the prompt was especially with his name, and not a merely random coincidence.

So... the code is out in the open. it will not disappear. Union Strikes or legal actions against the maintainers of the code will not make it disappear ( see all the futile action against file sharing programs ).
It is there, it will be used, and we have to live with it.
Even when at the moment there is a censorship in place, it will be gone at some point.

 

[ganje]

schau mal wer das "Falschgeld" herausgegeben hat

Es gibt unzählige andere Anbieter. Gib einfach "Spielgeld" in die Suchleiste ein..

 

[Scenturio]

I might throw in here that the british musicians union in 1982 actually passed a ban on using synthesizers and drum machines, because it endangered real musicians jobs.

but only if the synthesizer/drum machine in question can do Lambada, right?

 

[ganje]

Im Endeffekt denke ich mir: Wenn es den Leuten egal ist ob sie Depeche Mode oder generierte Musik hören, dann gibt es keinen Grund sich über das Kopieren aufzuregen, weil es eben egal ist. Wenn es den Hörern aber nicht egal ist, dann gibt es noch weniger einen Grund sich darüber aufzuregen, weil das Original heilig bleibt.

 

[verstaerker]

Es gibt unzählige andere Anbieter. Gib einfach "Spielgeld" in die Suchleiste ein..

was weis ich.. vielleicht gibts besodnere Genehmigungen. Ist mir auch egal. Streiche meinen Satz. Du hast Recht und ich meine Ruhe.

 

[Perry Staltic]

Man kann natürlich auch ein Fan von etwas sein, was man nicht versteht, aber meine Meinung dazu, schreibe ich mal lieber nicht.

Erinnerst Du Dich noch an "Dragostea din tei"? Das war sehr beliebt, aber wieviele Menschen werden wohl den Text verstanden haben...?

 

[RealRider]

Erinnerst Du Dich noch an "Dragostea din tei"? Das war sehr beliebt, aber wieviele Menscvhen werden wohl den Text verstanden haben...?

ja oder auch BAP

 

[ganje]

Erinnerst Du Dich noch an "Dragostea din tei"? Das war sehr beliebt, aber wieviele Menschen werden wohl den Text verstanden haben...?

Ist das mit Depeche Mode vergleichbar?

 

[Perry Staltic]

Ist das mit Depeche Mode vergleichbar?

Hängt davon an, wo Du wohnst und welche Sprachen Du beherrscht bzw. bewusst hörst. Der Text in Andreas KI-Song mag zwar Mumpitz sein, doch hätte ich ihn nur nebenbei im Autoradio gehört, wäre mir das zumindest beim ersten, oberflächlichen Hören wohl nicht weiter aufgefallen. Abgesehen davon, die Texte auf Speak & Spell waren auch größtenteils Quatsch mit Soße...

 

[Moogulator]

Das war eine "Demo" wie man so etwas macht. Es ist schon krass, was da noch alles drauf kommt - aber es ist wirklich extrem als Reaktion von YT ihr dann sofort alle Kanäle zu killen. Sowas ist einfach typisch die heutige "Post-Apple" Politik. Sowas sollte wirklich nicht mal möglich sein.
Das sollte wirklich mindestens 1x ordentlich juritisch begleitet sein und gesellschaftlich besprochen.

Die Argumente dazu gehören ALLE da rein, also natürlich ist das so, wie oben beschrieben.
Sicht 1: Stelle dir vor deine Musik wird in einem Topf geworfen und jemand gibt davon das Ergebnis aus als Song. Jemand.
Dazu gäbe es noch - eine Firma tut das oder alternativ - eine Firma ist entweder naiv oder absolut genau das nicht und tut das. Darüber sollte man reden. Länger!
Sicht 2 Stelle dir vor du kannst dir anhand von Namen als User was bauen lassen was mehr oder weniger ein Derivat ist. Autechre hätte ich probiert und noch etwas sehr gesangslastiges und damit eher die abseitigen Sachen. DM ist aber eine gute Vorlage, zumal das die VorzeigeBand mit Erfolg ist und da auch ein Team dahinter steckt. Das ist keine einfache Band. Da steckt was dahinter.
Also - diese Frage stellen und besprechen und juristisch und gesellschaftlich aufarbeiten.

Diese muss man dann eigentlich in jedem Land von unten nach oben und von Fachleuten bis zu den Betroffenen und Nutzern geben.
Oder aber man lässt es frei und muss sagen - das habe ich von Supibot aus Supicountry herstellen lassen. Link ist hier.
Dann wäre Herkunft klar.
Wir haben schon 1000 Regeln, schon hier im Forum gibt es einige Regeln die befolgt werden müssen - einige klug, andere gut gemeint aber schlecht gemacht.
Ggf. sollte man diese dann besser machen, damit sie das Ziel erreichen.

Zum Besten aller und gern auch mal nicht zu ungunsten der Künstler und Macher und Kreativen, die das idR selbst tragen oder jemanden wie Andrea, also jemand der das bespricht und in den Metatalk darüber geht. Also genau das macht was man dazu eigentlich bräuchte. Wenn man dazu einen Sonderaccount erstellen muss weil man ja weiss, dass das Ärger gibt, würde auch einiges ändern.
Das ist vergleichbar mit Klarnamenzwang ohne Gnade, selbst wenn man vom Musikrat und seinem Staat einen Eintrag hat, dass man sich so nennen kann - schreiben die Honks von FB und Youtube das so rein wie die das denken.
Vielleicht weil deren Sitz nicht die EU ist? Ich weiss es so weit nicht - vielleicht wollten die das auch einfach aus Prinzip durchsezten. Es ist ja eigentlich ein Klassenbuch mit MiniPartner-Börse - gewesen.

 

[Shunt]

Mal ne Frage, gibt es das noch irgendwo zu hören?
Hat das jemand runtergeladen, kann mir das jemand schicken, oder in eine Cloud hochladen? Thx!
Gerne PN

 

[micromoog]

Das unerlaubte verwenden von Namen und Bildern ist wohl offensichtlich rechtlich problematisch, aber musikalische Trittbrettfahrer gab’s doch schon immer.

Nach Enigmas „Sadness Part 1“ schossen zig Titel mit „Mönchsgesängen“ auf den Markt, ebenso die Dreamhouse-Welle nach „Children“ von Robert Miles…könnte man jetzt beliebig fortsetzen.
Depeche Mode wird schon seit 4 Jahrzehnten kopiert.

Die ganze Aufregung jetzt nur weil es von einer KI kommt?

 

[micromoog]

Hängt davon an, wo Du wohnst und welche Sprachen Du beherrscht bzw. bewusst hörst. Der Text in Andreas KI-Song mag zwar Mumpitz sein, doch hätte ich ihn nur nebenbei im Autoradio gehört, wäre mir das zumindest beim ersten, oberflächlichen Hören wohl nicht weiter aufgefallen. Abgesehen davon, die Texte auf Speak & Spell waren auch größtenteils Quatsch mit Soße...

absolut geile Songs mit „Mumpitz“-Texten gabs doch schon immer…zB: Spliff - Deja Vu
„Der rote Hugo hängt tot am Seil…“

 

[goorooj]

Die ganze Aufregung jetzt nur weil es von einer KI kommt?

Prizipiell hast du Recht. Aber es gibt jetzt einen entscheidenden Unterschied:
Eine Stimme ist immer recht einzigartig. Songs "wie" DM waren halt immer nicht ganz "wie" DM
Jetzt gibt es keinen Unterschied mehr.

Oder anderes Beispiel: Wenn sich ein Komiker einen Bart ins Gesicht klebt und einen bestimmten Prominenten nachmacht, auch wenn es gut ist... es war immer klar dass es nicht diese Person ist.
Jetzt tritt diese Person auf und ist nicht mehr unterscheidbar.
Wenn JBO früher Rocksongs nachgemacht hat war immer klar dass das halt JBO ist, und nicht AC DC. Jetzt kommt AC DC mit der Originalstimme von Bon Scott und singt einen Nonsens-text... das ist anders.

Ich möchte nicht falsch verstanden werden, ich bin ein Fan von freier Musik ( ich stelle meine Stücke unter entsprechende Lizenzen ) weil ich denke dass Musik nicht statisch ist sondern nur eine Momentaufnahme einer Person/Zeit/Orts/Gefühls die auch gern weiterentwickelt werden kann und soll, auch verändert wenn es andere Personen eine andere Zeit, einen anderen Ort und ein anderes Gefühl gibt.
Genauso wie ich seit jeher Open Source Verfechter bin.

Ich mag die Möglichkeiten der KI, ich sehe nur auch viele eventuelle Probleme.
Toleranz bedeutet ja auch, auf die Wünsche eines Künstlers / einer Person Rücksicht zu nehmen, und wenn derjenige nicht will dass mit seiner Stimme Songs veröffentlicht werden an denen er sonst keinen Anteil hatte, dann sollte man das auch Berücksichtigen und es lassen. Und genau das ist gerade eben nicht mehr gegeben, auch weil Toleranz bei den meisten momentan leider nur noch bis an die Grenzen des eigenen Weltbilds geht.

Andererseits, und das finde ich eigentlich viel spannender, könnte man jetzt Freddie Mercury oder Janis Joplin "zurückholen". Aber so sehr mir das in den Fingern juckt, es gibt auch Angehörige die vieleicht verletzt sind wenn auf einmal die tief vertraute Stimme mit etwas völlig neuem daherkommt... Ich versuche halt alle Seiten zu beleuchten und vielleicht zu verstehen.

 

[Shunt]

absolut geile Songs mit „Mumpitz“-Texten gabs doch schon immer…zB: Spliff - Deja Vu
„Der rote Hugo hängt tot am Seil…“

die waren ihrer Zeit einfach voraus

 

[KatsPurr]

Wow, lot's of interesting discussion and excellent points made!

since you can not contact them it is even harder since you can not just mail someone.
btw same with facebook - I'd really like to email a real person but I always get some sort of AI answer and that is almost 50 shades of no but the same reason.

Yeah support is absolutely aggravating from companies like this these days. Makes the whole incident feel 10x worse to just get automated responses! Creates this tight knot in the tummy!

That's how it started for me as well with YouTube. Just automated emails. But then I watched some videos on what to do if your account get terminated and realized I could chat directly with someone at YouTube support. For 3 days now I have been chatting/emailing with an actual human being. (and no, she is not AI ) She has been actively keeping me updated on how things are progressing and in general, has been a real sweetheart and sympathetic to my case. She's the one who has organized an internal 2nd appeal for the Andrea Fryer channel in addition to the one that had almost 50K and was my income. We are now waiting for other teams in YouTube to make a decision on their internal appeal. But like I said to her, even if her appeal doesn't go through, just being able to TALK to someone human has alleviated my stress levels immensely. I've obviously been thanking her a LOT.

I assume that if something like that gets a lot of clicks, it's monetized, right?

I was not monetizing the DM songs and after I got the invitation for partnership, I was not going to either because it would feel totally wrong to do that. My motivation for sharing the videos was more like an excited kid: "Holy crap, look at what this software can do, I can't believe it!" I never ever expected to get such a huge reaction and I couldn't believe it when articles started coming out about the song. About half the comments were negative, but then half were very positive. And it was hard not to be motivated by the positive ones to continue making more. I'm weak! What I can say though, is I never published those videos as a "product". It was merely me experimenting and wanting to share the results. I had so many people asking me to upload the songs to Spotify, but I refused because it would feel wrong.

But AI goes a big step further, it makes it almost effortless to achieve a high level of reproducibility that can actually harm the original artists (on whose data it is based). And this technology is still in its early stages! This naturally raises fears among those affected... last year, for example, we had a strike by actors in the USA over the use of AI in films. Or from the writing business: writers are suing OpenAI for copyright infringement .

To me, the amount of effort or time it takes to reach that result is not something that bothers me. However I do agree that if AI is able to reproduce something to be an almost exact copy that is indistinguishable from the original source and especially if it's been trained upon that sources copyrighted material without permission, this is absolutely wrong. Did I have enough moral willpower to resist the urge to share regardless? No I didn't. And I paid the price.

One of these authors is the well-known writer of the 'Games of Thrones' series, George RR Martin. Have you ever read his fascinating books (really thick tomes)? The series based on them has already been filmed, but the author, already an elderly gentleman, is still struggling with the last two volumes, and no one knows whether he will ever manage to finish them in his lifetime. So why not just put an AI on it, feed it the last episodes of the season and then have it finish the works in his style?

Yeah, creepy and doesn't feel right - I agree! I've really disliked seeing digital versions of actors that have already passed away, such as Carrie Fisher being created as a digital Princess Leia in Star Wars. I wonder what she would have thought of that.

So there are a lot of potential benefits, but also a lot of risks. You can't just let it go as it is, it's like a social atom bomb. There will be lawsuits and trials, for example to clarify copyright issues, and protests - and society must also become politically aware of what is actually happening and see where it wants to develop - which in the end (and that is also a living democracy) will then flow into the necessary legislation. It's still a bit like the Wild West, and you can't blame anyone (edit: apart from the moral aspects) for doing something that is allowed - but a lot will surely change.

Indeed. We live in scary and interesting times.

Why did you not created a ai copy of yourself? You played at high risk and you lost.

Whether or not I was representing myself with my true name versus having an anonymous channel is completely insignificant. I would have lost my channels regardless of whether I was representing myself as Andrea Fryer or RandomAnonymous name. All the work I had put in would be lost either way. Companies could have tracked down the real person behind the account easy peasy.

The mistake wasn't about using my actual identity, but using the same email account to control ALL of my channels. So if one channel has something super bad, they remove the entire account including all the other channels. I never planned or expected to do anything bad however, so when I saw the option to create new channels using the same email, I thought "Why not?" and here we are now. I should have totally made different emails for each channel. Little did I know I would ever get in trouble for anything, because I never intended to break any rules!

By the way: I asked the YouTube support person whether I am allowed to make new YouTube accounts with different emails. She said yes. So I guess they don't ban the person, just the email. Quite interesting.

If you would make media with my identity i would not only take down your channels but try to get you in jail.

Yikes!
But who is the ACTUAL villain here? The company (Udio) that created the software that is capable of this? Or the thoughtless messenger (me) who told people about it. From the sounds of it, you'd lock us both up! * sniff *

and the platform operator would rather remove all traces than have to deal with this new gray area.

Interesting point. You could very well be right! If this truly is the case, that I got removed because of the DM songs, this is something they will have to face and come to terms with sooner or later as a flood of new people like myself will start doing the same thing.

On the one hand, I can understand that the account does not belong to anyone with significant influence, so resistance is not to be expected (cost/benefit). On the other hand, this would have been the perfect opportunity for someone big to start dealing with this issue and set a precedent. But apparently not even Google has the balls to do that.

Yep, I was a very easy case to just snuff out for sure.

YouTube should provide you with concrete details about your possible misconduct.
Just because some users may interpret and report your content as misconduct does not necessarily mean that they are automatically right. I could imagine that your contact person from YouTube who informed you about the existence of "lots of violations" simply reads out a counter that was initiated by users reporting - forced by (maybe) false intention. I am therefore very interested to see how communication with YouTube continues. Please keep us in the loop.

Hey there Frank. So they did give me a reason, which was this. The only problem is that I feel like I've never done any of those things! But I guess what you mean is that they should have given me direct reasons "With this video you did this and this" "In that description you wrote this and that". I think the reason they don't give exact reasons is to protect the system from being misused by nefarious players. I can understand that they have to be careful with how much they reveal. But it does make it very hard for me to figure out what I did wrong and what not to do every again.

Despite many skeptical people in this thread feeling like the real reason was still the DM videos, I disagree because they are actively trying to do a second appeal for that channel. If that would have been the real reason, there is no way in hell that support would be fighting for me to get my channel back (that has the DM songs).

This lady I'm talking with in YouTube support has been amazing. Just this morning she sent me a really nice email letting me know that they're still working hard to fix this and that she'll let me know as soon as she has more info.

Depending on how YouTube continues to react and based on the current situation, I would definitely recommend that you go to a lawyer - if this is a possible route for you.
I made the mistake of not taking this route almost two years ago when my Facebook account has been blocked due to a hacking attack and then simply got deleted afterwards, despite massive intervention from my side.
And I can fully agree to @Moogulator that reaching a real person at Facebook is fully impossible without the help of a lawyer.
My Facebook account was of no particular value to me at that time, but in hindsight I can only say that companies like Meta or Google should be held back in all possible ways from making decisions over digital existences on their own - beyond the law.

Geeeeezzzz! I'm sorry to hear what happened with your Facebook account. Horrible for them to just delete your profile like that! What the heck! I can imagine how frustrating that time must have been for you!

As for getting a lawyer. I've been at home unemployed and burned out for several years and when I say that the 50K channel really was a huge help to my income, I mean it. It wasn't much that I got, but enough to cover most of my living costs. I don't want any pity, but just trying to make the point that "getting a lawyer" is a completely impossible idea. I would gain nothing and only lose money that I don't have. For sure I agree with the "principle" but there's not much a little person in the world can do.

Placebo
Siouxsie

Got these ones as well. Also would often get Peter Murphy (Bauhaus) and Bernard Sumner (New Order). All using the exact same prompt that I used for the DM songs.

To me it felt like the AI mixed together different famous goth/synth artists and the percentage at which you heard a certain artist varied. So with some songs I would get a 99% Dave Gahan voice. With others maybe around 80% Dave Gahan. Whilst others were more like another artist but you could hear a little Gahan in the mix. So I think with the first song I did, I just happened to get very "lucky" with getting an extremely high percentage of Gahan.

I definitely wouldn't post Udio songs on my website / YouTube channel or anything like that.

You mean to stay out of trouble? Or for moral reasons? Or both?

YouTube is hosting another fairy tale hour.
At the exact moment a controversial video is published on one channel, YouTube blocks all four of the operator's channels and, when asked urgently, claims that there is a problem with one of the other channels (but not with the one where the video in question was published).

They didn't remove my channels until nearly a week later. And the reason they removed them all is because they basically banned my entire account on YouTube, so any non-offending channels are collateral damage. If they do return my Andrea Fryer channel, then it has clearly been because of something else. I'm still cursing at myself for using the same email for all my channels. Never again!

BUT: on what basis could they have had something removed? There was no copyright infringement here, no illegal upload of their releases.

I guess the copyright infringement comes from Udio clearly training it's model using their copyrighted material. But then it should be Udio they chase after, and not the hundreds of thousands of users simply sharing what Udio spits out.

So it was probably DM themselves who felt their personal rights were at risk? On this basis, I at least managed to delete a YouTube video 15 years ago that showed me in... er... somewhat unflattering action after a gig

!!!!

Well, obviously they were able to have it removed. It is at least to be assumed that there was a copyright infringement - there is no clear legal ruling on this. What is certain is that an AI cannot come up with this without a template.

We still don't know if it was because of the DM songs. Let's see what happens with the appeal. What if the voice had 99% Gahan and 1% someone else's voice mixed in with it? What if it's 50%/50%? What if there is only 10% Gahan in the voice? At what percentage ratio can we clearly say it was a copyright infringement?
Again though, this is the fault of the software, not the messenger sharing the results.

but if I had only heard it on the car radio, I probably wouldn't have noticed it, at least not on the first, superficial listen. Apart from that, the lyrics on Speak & Spell were mostly rubbish too...

A guy commented in one of my videos that they had actually played the first DM song on radio in Holland. And the DJ only revealed afterwards that it was AI. Crazy and scary! I wonder how many thought it was actually DM. And this kind of thing opens up a whole new moral can of worms!

That was a "demo" of how to do something like that. It's crazy what else is added to it - but it's really extreme as a reaction from YT to immediately kill all of her channels. That's just typical of today's "post-Apple" politics. Something like that really shouldn't even be possible.
This really should be properly accompanied by legal advice and discussed socially at least once.

And to think that I had been having YouTube channels since 2006 and never once been in trouble before. For a "first offender", I think I should have at least gotten a warning or a first strike before they just completely obliterated everything.

Just a question, can you still hear this somewhere?
Has anyone downloaded this, can someone send it to me or upload it to a cloud? Thx!
Please PM

I'm still waiting to hear back from the company that hosts my website. But if they say it's not a problem, I might possibly upload the videos there. Yesterday I was still feeling sure about doing so, but some of you guys have made me think twice hehe.

All this fuss now just because it comes from an AI?

Yeah that's my thinking as well, that what AI is doing is nothing new. It's equivalent to people have been doing for years with just more primitive tools. It's like people are getting a knee-jerk reaction to the speed and efficiency at which AI can do the same thing that took months or years before. Is the "efficiency" the actual problem here?

In principle you are right. But there is now a crucial difference:
A voice is always quite unique. Songs "like" DM were never quite "like" DM
Now there is no difference.

About 50% of the commentators in the videos would disagree! People were happy to pick out how weak the result was compared to the real thing. However, just because it does a flawed result now, doesn't mean it doesn't do a perfect result in a few months! So we will come to that point for sure!

I don't want to be misunderstood, I am a fan of free music (I place my pieces under appropriate licenses) because I think that music is not static but only a snapshot of a person/time/place/feeling that can and should be developed further, even changed if there are other people, a different time, a different place and a different feeling.
Just as I have always been an advocate of open source.

At least I know exactly where you're coming from, and agree!

Tolerance also means taking the wishes of an artist/person into consideration, and if that person doesn't want their voice to be used in songs that they had no part in, then you should take that into account and let it go. And that's exactly what's no longer the case, not least because for most people, tolerance unfortunately only goes as far as the limits of their own worldview.

On the other hand, and I actually find this much more exciting, you could now "bring back" Freddie Mercury or Janis Joplin. But as much as I'm itching to do so, there are also relatives who might be hurt if the deeply familiar voice suddenly comes across with something completely new... I'm just trying to shed light on all sides and perhaps understand them.

Excellent excellent points! Yeah "bringing back the dead" whether that's in voice or in a movie is super creepy. Of course, also creepy if the person is still alive, but just in a different (no lesser) way. There was recently also that case about the comedian George Carlin whose daughter was furious about new comedic sketches done in his voice and style. I understand her rage!

It's tricky to draw the line where something is a tribute done out love and admiration for the artist, and when it's abusive and exploitative.

 

[Moogulator]

has been a real sweetheart and sympathetic to my case. She's the one who has organized an internal 2nd appeal for the Andrea Fryer channel in addition to the one that had almost 50K and was my income. We are now waiting for other teams in YouTube to make a decision on their internal appeal. But like I said to her, even if her appeal doesn't go through, just being able to TALK to someone human has alleviated my stress levels immensely. I've obviously been thanking her a LOT.

oh, I hope to find your channel back in life and no "panalty count" and even that video up again - maybe on another channel - since it is not evil. it's just meta and talking about since you made it clear enough.

I'd really like to have someone at FB - and maybe to talk to them - as well as YT just to get things fair and nice. so - big up - I have never managed to find real people.
and respect to answering ALL of us in one go!

 

[electric guillaume]

A guy commented in one of my videos that they had actually played the first DM song on radio in Holland. And the DJ only revealed afterwards that it was AI. Crazy and scary! I wonder how many thought it was actually DM. And this kind of thing opens up a whole new moral can of worms!

So they actually already played " your" song on the Radio?
Did anybody ASK you beforehand?

 

[KatsPurr]

oh, I hope to find your channel back in life and no "panalty count" and even that video up again - maybe on another channel - since it is not evil. it's just meta and talking about since you made it clear enough.

I'd really like to have someone at FB - and maybe to talk to them - as well as YT just to get things fair and nice. so - big up - I have never managed to find real people.
and respect to answering ALL of us in one go!

Thanks Moog, for the one channel that had the worst issues, I've been told that under no circumstances am I getting it back since it had so many violations. I was never told about the violations and that channel was also recently partnered. Usually when they accept partnership they check over a channel. I had no hiccups or issues getting partnered with that channel, so it's a real mystery what the violations must have been! I still don't know!

Yeah it can be so frustrating getting actual help. So if we can say something good about YouTube, is that at least their support system is a little more human than many other companies have! (I believe the chat only works for those with partnered channels though - not sure)

So they actually already played " your" song on the Radio?
Did anybody ASK you beforehand?

Nope! And this is only based on a guy's comment he left in the video. He said something along the lines of "I got fooled! Was going to work in the morning and the song started playing on the radio here in Holland". I tried to ask him more details but he never responded. I have no idea which radio station it was etc.
As for them asking. Perhaps they thought that since AI content is not copyrighted, that they are free to play it. I have no idea how the rules go for AI songs, and it doesn't bother me that it was played (if in fact this guy's comment was true). It was just kind of shocking to hear!

 

[goorooj]

So they actually already played " your" song on the Radio?
Did anybody ASK you beforehand?

I don´t think they have to. Udio at the moment announced to keep all the intellectual property and owndership rights of the generated songs, so even if you put something online they claim the intellectual property.
Which also should mean, if you ( at the moment ) put something online you made on Udio.... you did not create it. Udio did, so you should be actually out of the targeing Zone for legal action, no matter where you put it online.
Nobody needs to ask you to do something with it, it was never yours.
And in The US,at least, AI made content cannot be copyrighted at all.

But here is an interesting Video made about it by Miss Crystle ( who is actually a lawyer sopecialized in enterntainment ) that explains a lot

 

[Moogulator]

thats so typical - they NEVER tell you - but if so it is very unclear. To me the problem is the total intransparency and non-human automatic kind of nature. hmm - radios airplays may be a problem of them playing, and they may not have read the big letters!? yep - makes it even more interesting - it's like ignoring Mr. Data as a person or is he actually a person? if so, was it him/it to make the song? I mean the AI. things we need to discuss. I am not sure if they are ready.

anyway the info politicy and policy always felt very very incomplete on youtube and other platforms - but maybe vimeo may have kept that video up.
I never talked to a person of googletube, since - well .. you can not ask them for things, so you have to sort of guess what you can do. so sad.

so just like to send you some power and supporting words - to get your content back online - maybe the i_DM one will never returns - seems like they have this "penalty counter" for real.

yes - about the AI song generators - they say theses songs belong to them, so it may work like you have stolen their songs in this case - means - you shall never use them but listen to them un-officially. so in that case youtube needs some sort of claiming by the company (udio), then. And - to me it needs some warning - please turn it of or we turned that vid off and counting…
oops, see above - goorooj's post is a better approach to that.

 

[KatsPurr]

Fantastic video. A must watch! Thanks for sharing!

 

[goorooj]

I've been told that under no circumstances am I getting it back since it had so many violations. I was never told about the violations and that channel was also recently partnered.

You might want to look into the possibility that this other channel was maybe reported/bombed by disgruntled DM Fans that wanted to hate. Things like that happened before.
Would explain why it happened so suddenly that there were so many reports of violations at one point after it was calm all the time.

 

[KatsPurr]

You might want to look into the possibility that this other channel was maybe reported/bombed by disgruntled DM Fans that wanted to hate. Things like that happened before.
Would explain why it happened so suddenly that there were so many reports of violations at one point after it was calm all the time.

Oh they wouldn't have known about the other channel as it wasn't linked anywhere on my social media or related to my real life persona in any way. The only thing DM fans would have reported is the andrea fryer channel. So yeah, still a mystery on what went wrong with the "massive violations" channel. The only possibility I can think of is that some of the early videos had a transparent "watermark" overlay with a link to my patreon for that channel. I figured that people share their socials and other social media links on their videos all the time so there shouldn't be a problem. But perhaps YouTube saw that as "leading people away from YouTube". Who the heck knows.

 

[KatsPurr]

yes - about the AI song generators - they say theses songs belong to them, so it may work like you have stolen their songs in this case

Yeah I don't think Udio would have had a problem from that perspective because I credited their software for making the songs in an extremely clear way. The only thing Udio might not have liked is how openly I'm revealing this "fault" in the software that allows users to make such exact copies of the original. But that's their job to figure out and fix.

Thanks for your support.

I also just want to say (since someone contacted me privately and assumed I want pity) that I do not - I repeat - I do not expect or want pity from anyone here. I made my bed and I have to lay in it. If people want to show sympathy and empathy, I fully appreciate it, but do not expect it or ask for it! I am not innocent in this mess and I should have known better!

 

[goorooj]

I made my bed and I have to lay in it. If people want to show sympathy and empathy, I fully appreciate it, but do not expect it or ask for it! I am not innocent in this mess and I should have known better!

I would not go that far. None of us really know at the moment what is allowed and what not, and "they" ( whoever is involved ) dont really know either. That was a very interesting video.
Removing the possibility to sound like a certain artist/band is more likely a precaution they take as probably even their lawyers are not sure if this would be within the law or not, i suppose.

Regarding to your other Channels... oh well, I dont know them and I have no idea what you could have done wrong there. But this Video was a cool thing to make, thank you for that.

 

[ganje]

But that's their job to figure out and fix.

But they invite all users to report such content:

6.5 Notice of Infringement – DMCA (Copyright) Policy

If you believe that any text, graphics, photos, audio, videos or other materials or works uploaded, downloaded or appearing on the Services have been copied in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, you may submit a notification to our copyright agent in accordance with 17 USC 512(c) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (the “DMCA”), by providing the following information in writing:

1. identification of the copyrighted work that is claimed to be infringed;
2. identification of the allegedly infringing material that is requested to be removed, including a description of where it is located on the Services;
3. information for our copyright agent to contact you, such as an address, telephone number and e-mail address;
4. a statement that you have a good faith belief that the identified, allegedly infringing use is not authorized by the copyright owners, its agent or the law;
5. a statement that the information above is accurate, and under penalty of perjury, that you are the copyright owner or the authorized person to act on behalf of the copyright owner; and
6. the physical or electronic signature of a person authorized to act on behalf of the owner of the copyright or of an exclusive right that is allegedly infringed.

Udio | AI Music Generator - Official Website

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